Hi Ron,
I was kind of speaking of 1/2 off of the Loos gate and things like that. So
your "ball park"argument was the point I was trying to make.
My experience might be different than others, but initially (learning to
sail up to 15 knots) I have felt that the better return
on time was on the water. Even if it was just 30 minutes going out and
capsizing a bunch
of times. After pondering it for an hour on return, I think I had an idea
as to why it was happening
and hence I could improve on the next sail.
At least I became good at righting the boat and the hesitation to try
something new (because I
didn't want to capsize) went away.
Anyway, thanks for listing out your points, should be good stuff for new
sailers.
Christian
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Ron Radko <ron_radko@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Christian,
>
> There is a big difference between getting the rig just right, and getting
> the rig so it's reasonable to sail. While I am the last person to
> recommend
> spending time on the beach, (and the Musto philosophy is to get out on the
> water as we can!) from my experience starting a lot of people out,
> particularly people new to trapezing, there are certain aspects of the rig
> that need to be in the ballpark, or the new sailor is basically going to
> spend a lot more time capsizing than needed.
>
> This is a lot easier to do at the start with a Musto, as
> a) there are a few less variables,
> b) everyone has the same stuff, so getting a reasonable base setup is
> fairly
> well documented.
>
> I see a number of things that can make the boat basically extremely
> difficult to sail if the breeze is over 10 knots
>
> 1) incorrect trapeze handle height.
> 2) various combinations of sail setup that result in a sail that does not
> allow the top to twist off / flatten out when needed
> 3) combinations of sail setup that result in a sail that won't allow you to
> close the leech at the top and eliminate twist as needed
> 4) a rig set up that is way under powered so that the person keeps tea
> bagging in the lulls in a moderate breeze. Haven't played with the Swift
> enough to find the right combinations for this but in the Musto, I like to
> set it up so that I can play the top of the leech in the moderate breezes
> bringing in a lot of righting moment with very little sheeting action at
> the
> end of the pull. This is done by setting the bridle up so that the last
> section of the pull is downwards. Now, this is obviously something that is
> completely opposite to the philosophy Bram sets up for the Swift and that
> particular trick won't work. I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for
> the Swift, but probably has to do with setting up the relativity so that
> the
> jib leech opens and closes at the end of the sheet pull?
>
> At any rate, this is a problem I see a lot on beginner Musto sailors, and
> they have the sail set so that there isn't a nice way to transition between
> the correct sail force for a puff and a lull with minimal sheet movement.
> The end result is that the sailor staggers in the puffs, and then teabags
> in
> the lulls and keeps alternating back and forth until they fall over.
>
> As an example at DeSoto this year, I think it was Paul O'Sullivans boat,
> but
> not 100% sure, at any rate, one of the first times he went out, he was
> having a challenging time staying upright, and got tired from capsizing. I
> went out in a rescue boat, and hopped on the Swift. I had a lot of
> difficulty getting the boat in without capsizing (and this was in a
> moderate
> breeze) After sailing the boat, we came up with a few setup changes that
> the boat much more manageable the next time out. Including actually
> getting
> the trapeze handles set in a workable range (the trapeze handle was way too
> low at the start so I ended up having to just stand on the edge, hold the
> trapeze and feather the boat, and then some of the sail setup added
> challenges as well)
>
> In short there is a balance between getting a boat mostly right, and not
> getting out and learning on the water. However, if your basic setup is
> miles off, an absolute beginner will not know this and assume the problems
> lie with his technique and something he is doing.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: swiftsolo [mailto:swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 3:54 PM
> To: Paul O'Sullivan
> Cc: keithcouncell@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: look back at fort Desoto things I learnt
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think you are more or less right on with your observations. I've had
> to
> crawl under the boat (turtled) and sticking the CB back in. Its a rather
> odd
> feeling
> being under there with only a few inches of air. :)
>
> The one thing I think could use some improvement during the nationals,
> is
> the coaching on the water. I think it would be helpful to have a
> dedicated
> coach to video tape, do on the water coaching as well as video debrief
> afterward. There is only so much you can practice on the beach.
> Encourage
> new guys to be on the water
> while there is a rescue boat rather than spend hours on land getting
> their
> rig "just right" There appears to be a common misconception that the
> boat
> is totally unsailable if the rig is not perfectly right. I think new
> guys
> are better off spending a more time on the water and then experiment
> with
> the rig. Nothing gets you up the learning curve more than go sail. Get
> comfortable with the boat, get some on the water tips/coaching.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Christian
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Paul O'Sullivan
> <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
> > Merry Christmas and or happy holidays to everyone Swifty or Mustomen
> .its
> > been a great year to meet new people and learn so much about sailing
> the
> > Swift , I would like to thank everyone who has helped me this year and
> > particularly all the crew who went to Fort Desoto. I thought I would
> start a
> > list of things learnt with the idea that may be others would add to so
> here
> > goes;
> >
> > 1, the best thing about sailing is the friends you meet and keep.
> >
> >
> >
> > 2, Turn up at the Nationals with your boat finished and ready to sail;
> I
> > didn't and wasted too many awesome sailing days rigging the boat.
> >
> > .
> >
> > 3, Go to a Bram clinic the learning curve is unbelievable.
> >
> >
> >
> > 4. Practise on dry land, with the help of friends to sit on the boat,
> gets
> > out on the wire sort your foot work out,
> >
> >
> >
> > 5, Kneel on the side tanks on one knee; the forward knee .huge!! Don't
> SIT
> > on the tank; it's so much easier to swing out on to the wire.
> >
> >
> >
> > 6, Set the kite before you go out to check the thing fly's correctly
> .Bram
> > has a fool (i.e. me) proof method of rigging the kite, but I forgot
> > it...Bram???
> >
> >
> >
> > 7, Check your plug and hatch covers in the excitement to launch... An
> old
> > one but......
> >
> >
> >
> > 8, Find someone to go 2 up with, learnt more in 30 mins with Ron Radco
> > (thank you) 2 up, than hours of imperfect practice on my own.
> >
> >
> >
> > 9,Don't' be afraid of the kite , pick a light breeze and go for it ,
> it is
> > easier than it looks .Always steer under the kite as you get over
> powered .
> >
> >
> >
> > 10, when you capsize with the kite up ,ALWAYS pull it down ALL THE WAY
> DOWN
> > (from the stern ) BEFORE you right the boat Huge!!
> >
> > 11. Capsizing, I like Bram's method of going over the side and between
> the
> > jib and the mast and steadying the boat from there, you can step on
> the base
> > of the mast almost as soon as the main sail brakes from the water and
> if the
> > wind is on the" wrong" side i.e. going to blow you right over again.
> You can
> > grab the far shroud and attempt to stop the roll.
> >
> >
> >
> > 12, Getting up on the center board , This for me is the most difficult
> part
> > of sailing the swift, ideas I picked up form Keith Council. (Thanks
> Keith)
> >
> > A, Push your self DOWN as you grab the board the buoyancy in your
> > jacket will tend to "pop" you out of the water..
> >
> >
> >
> > B, Pull yourself on to the center board as close to the boat as
> > possible, this stops the boat from coming up and still leaving you in
> the
> > water (this happen to me a lot and this fixes the problem.)
> >
> >
> >
> > C, Get fit!! Lots of push ups, Keith practices in the swimming
> pool
> > pulling up on a diving board!!
> >
> >
> >
> > D. It is exhausting so Bram's advice is after 5 capsizes in a row
> GO
> > IN for a break!!
> >
> >
> >
> > E, Other guys have there own techniques ,I have tried getting in
> over
> > stern, when the boat is upright and you are in the water ,it works if
> the
> > wind is light and little or on waves ,one hand on the rudder stock the
> other
> > on the transom .Chris Wickham does the under the boat roll method
> .Chris ??
> > Ron Watt I believe goes in over the side but behind the mast (he so
> good he
> > never capsizes!!).
> >
> >
> >
> > 13, Drop the main as you come in shore especially a Lee shore or shore
> with
> > breakers, I sail off a beach which is always a lee shore and this
> simple
> > things has stopped me screwing up!! (Including smacking my rudder on
> > submerged tree stump, very costly)
> >
> >
> >
> > !4, Clothing ,I change to a very slim life preserver by 'Jet made for
> > wakeboarding it has some padding ,I put my harness over the top , that
> helps
> > with snags , a couples of the Musto Men had rash shirts over
> everything with
> > a hole of the wire hook , it look good ..Guys. IT seems to be very
> important
> > to reduce all the possible snag points .When sailing my Fireball 40
> years
> > ago we all wore thin nylon jump suits over every thing ... ideas Guys
> > ..Photos???
> >
> >
> >
> > 15, Knee pads and shin guards are essential.
> >
> >
> >
> > 16.Make sure your center board and rudder will not fall out when you
> are
> > inverted ,very embarrassing and has happen to my twice !!! , once I
> lost
> > the center board and sail to shore with out it ... the wrong shore!! I
> used
> > the rudder to get the boat right side up (tricky) and then run off
> down
> > wind. I was on a large lake 15knots wind and no other boats out!! I
> was
> > using a smaller main and in my excitement to get out I forgot to tie
> in the
> > board. The other time my rudder fell out as with use the lining in the
> > cassette has worn. Both are now tied in..
> >
> >
> >
> > That's enough for now, please feel free to , add , comment or trash
> .I
> > think I'm heading to San Diego to find some warm water and a fair
> wind .......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul O'Sullivan
> >
> > Catlin Properties
> >
> > 3620 Fair Oaks Blvd, Ste 150
> >
> > Sacramento, CA 95864
> >
> > (916) 485-8900 x.234
> >
> > (916) 599-1572 cell
> >
> > paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >
>
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