Tom,
I got my cedar from a local lumber yard. General building supply in Edison NJ.
I am about to buy the balance of what I need for 2 boats at Northeastern
Building Supply Jamesburg NJ. I selected these places because the first is very
close to my boat shop and the second is cheaper and closer to where I sail my
49er.
Yes I am milling my own strips. I am using my tandem router mill. I'm hopefully
going to be finished this weekend. I think you could do a boatload in a weekend
if uninterrupted. (not likely for me!). Ill post a picture of the mill when I
get a chance.
I have not made a really thorough survey of prices. I calculated that the best
deal for me would be dimensional lumber 1X4 (really 3/4 X 3 1/2in) at
US$1.18/lineal foot. I think I need 28 boards at 14ft and 3 at 16ft. Total cost
about US$518.00/boat These strips would be a bit narrower than if I cut them
from Decking which is 5/4 X4 or 6in (really 1+1/8in wide) making a strip about
~7/8ths to 3/4 wide strip. I did not calculate how many less strips I would
need because of this extra width but you could. Bram and I discussed it and his
advice was "stick with the narrow strips they behave better". I have not
bothered to cost the small amount of other dimensional cedar needed for sundry
items or the beach dolly.
Feel free to drop by as the boat develops, I am in New Brunswick NJ.
Greg
Hi there Greg,
Some quick questions for you.
Where did you get your cedar from?
What is the name of the place that you mention below in NYC/NJ?
How much did you cedar cost?
I presume from your comments below that you milled your own strips.
How long did it take?
Any advice or guidance would be great.
Any chance of coming to see you & look at how you at getting on? where
exactly do you live?
Cheers,
Tom.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Ryan [mailto:gregoryrryan@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 26 September 2003 15:56
To: swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Milling Strips.
Tom and Felix asked about milling strips,
I can source cedar here in NYC/NJ at an increased cost to what Bram can in
the Pacific Northwest. I am sure he will post his material choice mileage. My
cost is $1.49 /ft for 1X4 S4S A+ cedar. This material may have knots < 25%
giving a reasonable probability that if I sorted at the lumber yard I'd get
enough completely clear to make the boat. I think this will cost me (30 boards
total, 4 boards @ 16ft and 26 boards @ 14ft =$95+$542. or total cost of ~$640
USD
I can get 1X6 S4S A+ at $2.30/ft.
The 1by's are really ¾ inch so the strips come at a little less than ¾
after bead and cove is applied, making me use more strips and more heavy glue
which really adds no strength.
As and alternative I can get 5/4 X 4 decking boards completely clear. They
come in a random lengths in the pack (from the supplier to the lumber yard)
20ft to 5ft. Plenty of 16's and 14's These have a radius on the corners so I
loose one strip from these (or get 2 narrower strips). But the strips are wider
so I use slightly less strips. The cost is 2.11/ft. and its easy to sort for
flat sawn boards.
I don't like the wider strips because by sanding fair you will reduce the
hull thickness where the radius is greatest under the wings and where it counts
(see my earlier post). You could use the wider strips on the hull bottom and
the narrow strips on the topsides under the wings and the deck. They will be
harder to bend.
Nate Anderson in OR has kindly offered to supply already cut and milled
strips for 25-30c /ft + shipping.
Newfound woodworks for example sells these same strips for 45c per lineal
foot.
At Nate's prices and Bram's estimate of material required ~ 360 strips
total, 25X16footers + 335 X14footers = $1272 to $1527 + delivery. A very fair
price, thank you Nate.
If you want to cut and mill the strips yourself here are some ideas that
might help.
1) Narrow kerf blade.
You want to cut the strips smooth so that there is less sanding on the hull
surface consider buying the Freud Diablo laser cut stabilized finish saw blade.
It is a 7 ¼ inch 5/8th arbor 40tooth carbide blade with a narrow 0.052in kerf.
It is also Teflon coated. Bram suggested to me that with such a narrow kerf it
might be possible to use dado blade spacers to mount 2-3 blades at 1/4 in
spacing and cut multiple strips in one pass with the average handyman table
saw. I don't see why this wouldn't work if you made a double or triple riving
knife and fixed it overhead to the fence.The Diablo blade can be sourced from
The Borg (Home Depot) ~~$10.
Freud also have a nice 10in ultra-finish blade with a slightly less than
regular (0.125in) sized kerf. It is an 80 carbide tooth 5/8th arbor table saw
blade with 0.1inch kerf and Teflon finish. It is a bit pricey though (much more
than 2X) compared to their 7 ¼ saw though.
2) Infeed and outfeed tables.
Consider using 2 pieces of scrap from the plywood leftover from strongbacks
as 8ft long infeed and outfeed fences.
3) Routers and Bits
MLCS (MLCSwoodworking.com) have cheap prices on bead and flute router bits.
They are also known as Canoe bit sets. If you ask for them, you will get the
right ones. Their item No is 5415. for $39.95
Use your high power router inverted or if you don't have one and are going
to build a router jig for this job (use the scrap from the strongbacks) you can
use lighter weight laminate cutter/routers from JNJ (JNJtools.biz) $25 each and
they seem to me to be reliable. JNJ also have a 2hp plunge router for $35.
Amazing but don't be put off by the low price. These guys have done OK by me.
For my own strip cutting I have made a strip mill that cuts both bead and
cove in one pass. I used 2 JNJ trimmer Routers and a 7amp, 21inch JNJ belt
sander ($29.50) teamed with a MLCS router speed control ($25) to slow it to
10ft/min as a power feed. I left my camera with Bram yesterday while we were at
Columbia River Gorge (fabulous regatta site), when I get it back (hint) I'll
take pictures for you all. I cut a few pine test strips today and it worked
well. All up it cost me about $150 and a polypropylene chopping board.
I hope all this info helps you decide what you will do about strips.
One more tip. If you are just about up to cutting your sections now.
Consider gluing the paper sections on thinner base material say ¼ in hardboard
(Masonite to you Aussies). Its easier to sand to the exact size. Drill holes
through the control lines then overlay it on the station particle board and
rout around it with a top ball bearing ½ in diameter pattern/flush trim cutting
bit (MLCS 2 flute carbide # 6506 ¼ in shank $15) . This will leave you with an
exact copy of the section plan. You can mark the control lines on it and the
scrap piece is ½ inch larger all round and so with a ¼ in carpet padding will
perfectly fit the bottom of the hull when it comes time to rotate the hull. It
would also be a good template to help make the cedar cradle and dolly.
Finally, Bram and I have been talking and negotiating with John Sweet to
put together a package deal. I hope we can get discounted prices on 2 packages,
a starter pack to get the materials needed to do the bulkheads etc and a final
package of all the rest. Bram, I guess, will let you know if that goes through.
John's prices, as most of you have already found out, are superior already.
Margins are thin so the discount will not be huge, but something is not nothing.
Ciao Greg
Swift Solo USA009 - Rose.
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