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Fwd: Re: Class Rules Opinions please

To: Swiftsolo <swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Class Rules Opinions please
From: Steve Nichols <aussieswift@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:30:01 +1000 (EST)
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Steve Nichols <aussieswift@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:  Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 
13:28:44 +1000 (EST)
From: Steve Nichols <aussieswift@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Class Rules Opinions please
To: Greg Ryan <greg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

  Greg,
   
  I didn't get the data that you sent re the mast. 
   
  In factThe 59er I sail has almost an identical size rig to the Swift Solo and 
was designed to be appropriate for relatively small righting moment - the 59er 
was conceived as a 2 man hiking boat. This rig may be closer to the Bethwaite 
version of what they think would be appropriate for the Swift Solo. I am going 
to play with the spinnaker on the Swift for fun.
  During the shake down process for rigging the Swift Solo I've had a few 
realisations. One of these has been that most Bethwaite gear whilst ok for its 
designed purpose - relatively low cost strict one design boats is not suitable 
for the Swift Solo application. Most of their gear is designed down to a price 
and not up to a standard. The "carbon" mast on the 59er and the "carbon" spin 
pole on the 49er are actually fibreglass and weigh and flex more than their 
carbon equivalents. I could continue this list with other components. That is 
not to say they are doing a bad job but I believe they will occupy a different 
section of the market from us. I could have easiliy decided to drop the 59er 
rig on top of the Swift Solo but I don't think that is the right spirit for our 
class. The sailmaker we have selected - Dave Alexander has made world 
championship winning I14 sails in conjunction with CST as the mast maker. He is 
happy to work with us on our application and is confident
 that he can produce a good product. 

Greg Ryan <greg@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
            Hi Steve,  I didn?t get a reply from you regarding the mast data I 
sent or the Australian Member National Authority and ISSA Council delegate.  In 
the mean time, and possibly of interest, we have been measuring the 29er over 
here. As you know the 29er hull is very close in size and weight and shape to 
the Swift. The 29er jib IS the same size as ours, but our mast and main is 
bigger. The 29er XX carbon mast is said to  have the same (or very close) 
overall mast dimensions as ours, of course the standing rig will be different 
so I have been waiting to get hands on the 29erXX rig to check the dimensions 
and compare the Pride/Bethwaite designed spinns. Maybe this is something you 
can work out. In any case it might be a simple option, but not necessarily any 
cheaper, IF it is sized close enough. Worth looking at anyway? (Some picture 
comparisons  are up on Al?s flicker site). 
   
  On advisory rulings in general; 
  In general, if anyone is looking for benediction on what they consider a 
variation that might need prior approval of the technical committee (whose 
authority comes from part A 3.8 and 3.9 Management Rule and Part B Rules 
4.4-Restricted Features and Materials and 4.5-Advisory Rulings, see below) then 
you should make a detailed drawing with explanations and email or send it to 
the Class Secretary.  The Secretary will pass the drawings on to the chairman 
of the technical committee (appointed each year by the Class Council or EC) to 
examine it correspond with you about it and finally recommend action to the EC 
which will issue an advisory ruling to you through the chairman of the TC (who 
will also direct the class measurers in the application of the advisory 
ruling). If you or the EC and or council consider Class Rules need to be 
changed to accommodate such a design variation, then a proposal (seconded by 
two other owners) should be submitted to the Secretary before March in
 the year the member owners would vote on the issue. The EC will arrange a 
(email/web) vote prior to the AGM and a simple 2/3 majority of votes received 
from eligible owners will accept the proposal. It will normally come into 
effect at the AGM which is held after the Gold Championships (next in the 
northern part of NA around the US mid summer 2007 timeframe, and yes, this year 
competing boats WILL be measured). 
  4.4 Restricted Features and Materials 
  To ensure the objects of the class are not prejudiced, where a person 
proposes to build a Swift Solo which: 
  1. Incorporates a design feature of the hull not expressly specified in the 
template drawings plans and construction manual; or (?) not currently in use in 
Swift Solos already racing, the owner must seek the approval of the Technical 
Committee of the ISSA before constructing the Swift Solo. 
  4.5 Advisory Rulings. 
  Builders intending to construct boats for measurement under these Rules are 
advised to submit details to the ISSA, or its approved representative, of any 
feature which may impinge upon the spirit or letter of these rules. Upon 
submission of full drawings and explanations, a confidential advisory ruling 
may be obtained without obligation. 
   
  On a more specific note regarding your prod receiver design,  
  The guidelines our Vice President Robert Harper foreshadowed are reasonable I 
think. Keeping in mind when designing the pole spar that the pole and the 
forestay fitting are ?included? in both the swing test and the weight test,  so 
I don?t see a strong incentive to make them much lighter, and therefore in real 
need of  receiving tube support out in front of the boat. No poles have broken 
in the class so far. However, I don?t think the feeling in the class is to 
stand in the way of improvements in rig, especially if you can make a case for 
reliability and efficiency issues. Moreover, I don?t think the class would be 
in favor of maintaining the status quo simply to provide a convenient lifting 
or pivot point for the boat, but there would likely be a negative response from 
the TC and current EC to a proposal for penetrating the deck and flotation 
space at the bow in any way.  Without preempting the TC?s or EC?s decision on 
the matter, the relevant rule might be 
   
    5.12.3b Hull Dimensions 
  Length overall shall be measured with the hull?s designed waterline 
horizontal, between perpendiculars at the AMP and the forward most protrusion 
of the hull. This measurement shall be a minimum of 4.363m (171 3/4 inches) and 
a maximum of 4.375m (172 1/4 inches).
   
  So the length of the hull and protrusions is set at 14.35 feet. It could be 
possible that if you make a good argument that the prod is a part of a 
?forestay fitting? rather than a part of the hull (and this may hinge on 
attachment method) then rule 5.12.3b might not apply, as a fitting might not be 
considered as part of the hull.  The usual rules for position of forestay 
attachment etc will apply to that fitting. The mechanical problem I see with 
that is that the pole is a long lever - on the bolts of the forestay fitting. 
It better be attached aft and securely to the deck. 
   
  Alternatively you might make the outermost part of the receiving tube at 
position 4.375m and extend the structure inwards, attached to the deck. As the 
designers  building guidelines now stand, the pole guide and forestay fitting 
complex is not all that far in front of the pole collar. A receiving tube 
extending back that far or most of the way might accomplish the objective? The 
attachment of the pole is not a controlled measurement point, per se, in so far 
as it does not frustrate the rules or alter the nature of the design.  Hence 
the reason for inclusion of rule B.4.5
   
  Good sailing..
  Greg Ryan
  ISSA  President. 

     
   
   
   

   
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Nichols 
  To: Swiftsolo 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:32 AM
  Subject: Class Rules Opinions please
  

  Guys,
   
  I've been talking to Clive at CST re masts for Swifts over here. We are also 
going to get the other spars from him ie spinnaker pole and boom.
   
  Clive is very keen to change our pole launching system so the spin pole 
retracts into a receiving sleeve a la I14 style. This has a couple of 
advantages - smoother launches and no issues with point loads on the pole. The 
question I have is that reading the class rules it specifies that the pole must 
retract to 700mm of the stem. We would like the receiving pole to go out to 
this dimension - this further minimises any bending that may occur.
   
  What are peoples opinions? Is this breaching the rules or not?
   
  Also what actual length are the poles in use and diameter?
   
  Cheers,
   
   
  Steve
   
  nb the 14s allow this but it is specifically catered for in their rules
   
  Class rule extract
   
  a. The Spinnaker Pole shall be retractable to within 700mm (27 5/8 inches) of 
the stem. The length from the AMP to the outer most extremity of the spar, when 
the spar is fully extended shall not exceed 6.095m (240 inches). 
   



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