Bram:
Thank you for your reply to my e-mail concerning the "license"
referred to in the rules and their proposed changes, the royalty, and the
license
agreement. I have attached your answer to this e-mail.
Unfortunately, the understanding I thought we had gained was only a
misunderstanding, so we will have to continue trying to achieve understanding.
As Rob's e-mail asks, "On page 7 of the manual you state, 'You can build
as many strip built boats off of your plans and template patterns as you want
as long as you pay the $300.00 fee and $75 registration for each boat.'...Is
the $300.00 a licensing fee and the $75.00 ... an additional registering fee?
With our initial $575.00 these fees are all covered...And the $200.00 was for
the plans?"
This would all make sense in light of the e-mail you posted this morning
that stated, "To make sure that we are on the same page: a 'bootlegged' boat
is one which has been built without paying the $300.00 license fee prior to
bonding the hull and deck."
But now you tell me, "The license agreement is a written acknowledgment
that a builder understands and agrees that he has paid the fee for one boat
only. If he builds subsequent boats without paying the fee he will not be able
to claim ignorance when one of the buyers of his bootlegged boats is refused a
license. The liability for his misconduct will be his and not ISSA's."
"Refused a license", so again WHAT IS THE LICENSE IF IT IS NOT WHAT HAS BEEN
PURCHASED WITH THE $300.00 FEE?
Please do not be shy. Post your answer so everyone can read it.
Apparently I am not the only one who does not understand this.
Eldon
Subj: Re: CLASS RULES
Date: 11/25/2003 3:06:43 PM Central Standard Time
From: BDally6107@xxxxxxx
To: Harveynestor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Eldon,
The license agreement is a written acknowledgment that a builder understands
and agrees that he has paid the fee for one boat only. If he builds
subsequent boats without paying the fee he will not be able to claim ignorance
when one
of the buyers of his bootlegged boats is refused a license. The liability
for his misconduct will be his and not ISSA's.
A side Note (Warren Please read this): Somehow Eldon, when I hit "reply all"
and respond to your posts it is now showing my responses as if they were
generated by your email address. Sorry for that. I either need to learn
something or something is wrong.
Bram
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From: BDally6107@xxxxxxx
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Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:59:25 EST
Subject: Re: CLASS RULES
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Subj: CLASS RULES
Date: 11/25/2003 2:41:28 PM Central Standard Time
From: Harveynestor@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Bram:
Thanks to Rob's post and Greg's answer perhaps we are close to under
standing this. It makes sense if the $300 royalty is the license referred to
in
the rules and their proposed changes. Is that the case?
If it is the case, then what is the purpose of the license agreement
that you want signed?
Please go ahead and post your answer so everyone can see it.
Thank you in advance
Eldon
Subj: Re: CLASS RULES
Date: 11/25/2003 1:33:02 PM Central Standard Time
From: gregoryrryan@xxxxxxxxxxx (Greg Ryan)
To: swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Fairly clear thanks for your post Rob. As I read the rules. $300 royalty and
$75 fee. But I believe this fee is to cover the ISAF fee charged to the class
for administration (any remainder for other class overhead such as reporting
to ISAF, filing your rule change requests etc.). ISAF is the international body
that governs our sport, sets the racing rules of sailing, overlooks and
validates the class as an entity. The ISAF fee would be payable on any boat
wishing
to enter the class. It is the onus of the class to collect that due. It is
payable only once, on initial registration of the hull. Any commercial builder
will of course pass on all costs to the buyer anyway so lets not split hairs
and nickel and dime everyone at time of sale (an American pastime, couldn't
resist the dig!).
Pay for a brand new boat from a Certified Commercial Builder and expect to
get proof of new built hull, a Swift Logo, a Hull and Sail number and an
official registration certificate.
0000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Lets keep it simple and
it should be uniformly accepted and dealt with. In terms of Certified
Commercial Builders our course seems fairly obvious. Since we seem to be
worried
mainly about second or additional hulls that could be built "sans fees"
impacting
the health of the class, and since the commercial builder has the biggest
stake in continuation of the class and therefore his revenue, it makes sense
that
she would ensure the payment of the fee and just collect it from the buyer at
point of sale. If you are contemplating building a series of skiffs then I
would encourage you to seek out certification from the class so that you can
sell
a "value added endorsed product" with the Class' endorsement of your quality
and integrity. The Class should actively work to promote and support its
partner certified builders and parts suppliers. This should be a reciprocal
relationship.
The ISSA web site will make it abundantly clear what a Registered Swift is,
making it unlikely for a "bootleg" builder to ever sell a Swift without a
registration certificate. I never seriously expect our obviously highly ethical
certified builders would ever do this but it could be tempting to a
flybynighter
and we need to guard against it by some means. Buyers of second hand boats
should expect to get at least a registration certificate and would be wise to
get
a measurement certificate too. The measurer cannot issue a measurement
certificate without evidence of a valid registration certificate. The class may
authorize a re-registration fee for second hand boats if it wants but the point
of
the re-registration requirements are to keep us all in communication so I
hope the fee, if any, is not in the least prohibitive. Membership, and having
your say in the class governance by the ISSA ,is restricted to boat owners
(i.e.
those with a valid rego certificate) and it will be worth your while not to
miss out on the great email newsletters that I have heard planned and other
goodies, support and info racing and rigging tips that will come up from time
to
time to benefit the members.
So I propose let the fees structure rules stand as is, For the first boat
$375 in Royalty and ISAF fees payable at plan purchase plus $200 for the
printing and administration of the actual plans and glossy builders booklets
(one
great one is yet to come) and access to 16/7 technical help, OR on the second
and subsequent hulls, $375 before closing the clamshell with Proof that the
closure date is after the Registration certificate date so that the boat cannot
be
sailed in any races without fees being paid. This puts the onus on the
builder to document,ante up a small amount of cash, and register the hull. The
registration certificate issued assures subsequent buyers that the proper fees
have
been paid on that hull and they are getting a genuine article. If you lend
your sections to a buddy he will have to pay the same registation and ISAF fees
as you did but only gets the benefit of a tired old set of builders
instructions.
If, as a builder, you make your decision to close the clamshell without
registration fees being paid you are not building a Swift no matter how close a
copy and likely the hull will be fairly worthless. The class will ignore any
pleas to register the boat under any circumstances. If you sell such hulls as
Swifts you may be liable fraud and to infringement of copyright laws and the
destruction of your reputation. l" LANG="0">
I guarantee I will have a handy dandy Bilge Cam ready for you all before the
next championships to CATCH ALL THOSE CHEATERS. They will be available to
official measurers for $100 or close to. The video stream can be recorded on
your
standard videocam. Bilge Cam Plans will be posted on the new NYCSkiffs.org
site so that you can construct and/or improve the design if you so wish.
Sawdust is not a food group but is very good for making satisfying boogers.
Greg Ryan Ph.D.
A little known factoid
Japan-based Fuji Spinning company has developed the sartorial equivalent of
an orange: A vitamin C enriched t-shirt called V-Up. The shirt is made from
fibers that contain a chemical called Pro-Vitamin that leaches into the skin,
giving the wearer the equivalent of two lemons worth of vitamins. The company
is
in the process of designing shirts loaded with other vitamins, and working on
a design for enriched underwear.
Swift Solo - Rose
----- Original Message -----
> From: <A HREF="mailto:drrld@xxxxxxxxxxx";>Rob DesMarais, D.C.</A>
> To: <A HREF="mailto:BDally6107@xxxxxxx";>BDally6107@xxxxxxx</A> ; <A
> HREF="mailto:swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx</A>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 11:49 AM
> Subject: RE: CLASS RULES
>
>
> Hi Bram, To clarify building multiple boats: On page 7 of the manual you
> state, âYou can build as many strip built boats off of your plans and
> template
> patterns as you want as long as you pay the $300 fee and $75 registration for
> each boat.â You are just changing that language a tad to make sure you
> have
> pictures prior to laminating the deck to the hull at which time the
> registration fee must be paid as opposed to after it is finished and ready to
> sail?
> Sounds clear to me. What about the $75.00? Is the $300 a licensing fee and
> the $75 is an additional registering fee? With our initial $575.00 these
> fees
> are all covered, but we need to take some pictures before bonding.
> Additionally, the $75 would be charged again should I sell this boat and the
> new
> owner wants to register it in the class in his name? And the $200 was for
> the
> plans? If I build ten boats after this first one, I pay $300 as a licensing
> fee
> for each? The people buying them can then register them for $75? Fair
> enough to me. Rob "One of the biggest tragedies of human civilization is
> the
> precedents of chemical therapy over nutrition. It's a substitution of
> artificial therapy over natural, of poisons over food, in which we are
> feeding people
> poison in trying to correct the reactions of starvation." Dr. Royal
> LeeJanuary 12, 1951
>
>
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: BDally6107@xxxxxxx [mailto:BDally6107@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 10:01 AM
To: swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Fwd: CLASS RULES SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
Eldon,
I will make this brief and to the point. You have already (yesterday)
privately been provided with the names of those involved in the conversation
and
reasoning. Because you are forcing the issue I've attached that private email.
The first statement out of my mouth at the beginning of your call was "this
will have to be short because it is painful to talk". My wife had talked to
you earlier and told you that I was very ill. Your insistence on arguing every
point with an individual in this condition was a bit over the top from my
perspective.
If you somehow understood that the $300 license fee was interchanged with
some other $200 fee I apologize (I have no knowledge of any $200 fee). The
rules
for building subsequent boats has been posted on the website for nearly a
year. The license agreement requirement was discussed with you in the
beginning
and has also been posted on the website.
Indeed the rules have been an evolutionary process, however, the class
objectives have been stated from the beginning. The rules belong to the
class--not
me. It may be that when we call for the question everyone will vote "no" and
we will start over. If you have a problem with the rules put your proposed
amendment on the server and we will vote on it. My suspicion is that most of
the
members want to keep the hulls and decks pretty standardized in order to keep
theirs from becoming obsolete. It is my belief that people who put this
amount of work into a hull and deck need to be protected above almost
everything
else.
To make sure that we are on the same page: a "bootlegged" boat is one which
has been built without paying the $300 license fee prior to bonding the hull
and deck.
I hope this clears this matter up as there is much to be done and a lot of
good news to be posted. Today will be spent putting yesterdays language into
rules form and posted for the vote--amendments notwithstanding. Please feel
free to suggest amendments.
Best regards,
Bram
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