No worries. I didn't mean to sound condesending or anything like that.
Sorry if I did. I've seen too many projects, and done too many of my own
where others and myself thought they could take short cuts only to find
out that was a very bad thing to do. Some may not like my thinking but you
have to remember that a strong tree grows from strong roots. If the base
is no good, the rest will fall. I'd rather to it right the first time and
do it once than to have to return back to correct mistakes as I have done
too often in the past.
On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:45:59 -0700, Cameron Hunziker
<cameron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks Robert. I hadn't given proper consideration to joint strength,
so your reply is most helpful.
It's not so much I'm trying to solve a problem, but rather trying to
plan out what needs to be purchased / set up...
I won't begin this project with all the materials needed, but rather
will end up purchasing things in stages; the wood included. So my
perspective on building is a bit more like, "How much hybrid twill will
I need for the bulkheads? How much resin? How many boards will I need
to purchase and rip to get me through page 19 in the manual? Do I need
any boards longer than 6 feet in length? and perhaps most importantly:
Do I need to set up both my table saw and router rigs now, or can it
wait until stripping the boat?" The volume discount on the cloth and
epoxy is negligible; on the raw wood it's non-existent.
In a perfect world I would purchase all the wood now, rip it, bead cove
it, and be done with it. But then I wouldn't have the money available
for the cloth, tape, resin, etc. -- Things I need for the bulkheads,
soldiers and small pieces. Since the wood on the small pieces will be
covered with the hybrid, I don't have to worry about matching color - so
it can come from a different batch than the wood that will be visible.
So that's where my question originated -- I'm certainly not questioning
the construction methods in the manual or that others have used- If I
had the bead/cove strips on hand the question never would have come up.
Thanks again for yours and everyone else's responses-
cameron
On Feb 6, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Robert Harper wrote:
FWIW,
I think you want to still use strips with a cove and bead for the
transom and bulkheads. You can go with wider strips if you want but I
think the cove and bead will give you a stronger joint because of the
increased surface area and shape. Butt joints are not very strong. In
fact, they are the weakest joints you can make with wood.
I would not try to stray too far from proven methods. Often there are
reasons that people go to the extra work for some things. No one wants
to do more work than they have to but to take too many shortcuts and
have things fail on you is much more wasteful of your time and money.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to solve by using simple butt
joints for the transom and bulkheads. If you are trying to save time, I
don't think you'll gain much because you'll want to run the strips on a
joiner so that the butt joints match up well without voids. I think
running the router to put a cove and bead on will be easier and much
less expensive than trying to get butt joints to fit properly.
When I built my canoe, I used butt joints to join shorter strips
together to get the length I needed. This was very problematic for the
stripping process so on the later boats, I've used a 12:1 scarf joint
that is very strong and works great. I once tried feather joints but I
had problems with those because the bond wasn't much stronger than a
butt joint and I'd end up with a similar mess to what I had with butt
joints. There was a lot more time involved in doing the scarf joints
but it sure made a huge difference in the stripping process and the
quality of the finished process. I had much less fairing to do and it
looked much better. I hate sanding and scraping so if there is
something I can do to reduce that part of the process, I'm all over it.
On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 09:57:43 -0700, Warren Stevens <warren@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> wrote:
Crusher (my blog) is mostly what I did with a few addendums from ideas
on the list. The idea of cutting strips but not cutting the beads and
coves into them for the bulkhead material was something I dreamt up,
but haven't tried. It theory it seems like it would be a good way to
save some time and effort, but of course, it's not tested...
Be careful to ensure the grain is the right direction - on all the
strips you want grain visible on the wide sides, not the narrow side.
Warren
----- Original message -----
From: "Cameron Hunziker" <cameron@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: swiftsolo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 17:18:43 -0800
Subject: Soldiers, bulkheads and transom...
I got my plans yesterday, and have been alternating between them, the
mailing list archives and the Crusher site (You sir are a gem!) pretty
much non-stop for the last 16 hours. And I have a few thoughts:
1. I read on the Crusher site of a discussion about using clean (not
beaded or coved) strips for the bulkhead. Further reviews of the
archive turned up a conversation about the possibility of using
plywood. I will be ripping my own strips, and will likely rip them in
2 or 3 different stages. So that got me thinking, could the bulkhead
material be composed of cedar 1x4s ripped into 1/4" x 4" s and glued
together to form the 5" x 5" sheet of material? The grain of the
wood would still run vertically, but it would mean a hell of a lot
less glue (roughly 16 or so glue lines) and fewer cuts. It should
also be lighter, but will it be less strong or less absorbent to shock?
2. On a similar note, could the transom also be assembled w/o bead
and cove (I'd stick w/ 1/4" strips here for aesthetic purposes)?
3. Bram's trick on how he did his deck design (gluing full strips of
mahogany and cedar and then cutting into smaller segments) got me
thinking about the tee soldiers. Could they be assembled with the
fillets and glass tape as a single strip and then cut to length w/ a
think kerf chop saw? With this approach it might be easier to attach
the cedar strips without using staples (sandwiching the cedar -
soldier - cedar with a couple of 2 x 4s either clamped or screwed to
your work table)
Are these reasonable solutions, or am I delusional from lack of sleep?
Thanks!
Cameron
This is the Swift Solo mailing list. For unsubscribe instructions,
visit here: http://catzooks.com/swift-solo/
This is the Swift Solo mailing list. For unsubscribe instructions,
visit here: http://catzooks.com/swift-solo/
--Live large, love lots, and sail fast!
The mark of who you are is determined by what you do when you don't
have to do it.
USA 050 Fugu
77959 Wasabi
Robert Harper
This is the Swift Solo mailing list. For unsubscribe instructions,
visit here: http://catzooks.com/swift-solo/
This is the Swift Solo mailing list. For unsubscribe instructions,
visit here: http://catzooks.com/swift-solo/
--
Live large, love lots, and sail fast!
The mark of who you are is determined by what you do when you don't have
to do it.
USA 050 Fugu
77959 Wasabi
Robert Harper
This is the Swift Solo mailing list. For unsubscribe instructions,
visit here: http://catzooks.com/swift-solo/
|